The Quiet Truth about Poor Sleep from a Sleep Doctor | Dr. Benjamin Long MD

Sleepless nights rarely start in the bedroom. They usually begin with a racing mind, a tender story, or a belief we’re afraid to say out loud. We sit down with Dr. Benjamin Long, a dual board certified sleep medicine physician and pediatrician, military doctor, and author, to explore how real rest happens when data meets dignity and treatment meets presence.

We trace Dr. Long's journey from a 12-year-old who dreamed of pediatrics to a resident whose sleep rotation “clicked” and changed his career. He detilas the inner workings of sleep medicine: interpreting home tests and in-lab polysomnography, spotting pediatric apnea from a shaky phone video, and guiding exhausted parents through evidence-based behavioral tools. Beyond the monitors, he shows why the most common insomnia profile is the overthinker and how sleep deprivation rewires the brain (dimming the prefrontal cortex while turning up the amygdala) making focus sink and emotions swell.

What makes this conversation different is how Dr. Long integrates meaning into medicine. He takes a simple spiritual history (Is spirituality or religion important in your daily life?) in order to understand the patient’s inner world. That single question can surface existential worry, religious trauma, or grief that keeps people awake. We compare modern “clock in, clock out” systems with the relational roots of care, and hear vivid stories from military medicine that brought community pediatrics back to life: neighbors at the door, newborns on the dining table, trust built one late-night knock at a time.

If anxiety scripts your nights, you’ll leave with a practical tool: scheduled worry time. Set a daily, non-bedroom window to write every concern, expect a brief spike in worries, and retrain your mind over four to six weeks to save rumination for that container. Ben’s Sleep Habits Journal weaves medical strategies with reflective prompts to help anyone—faith-oriented or not—calm an overactive mind and reclaim rest.

Join us for a clear, compassionate guide to better sleep, smarter habits, and the courage to listen to what your insomnia is trying to say. If this conversation helped you, subscribe, share it with a friend, and leave a review so others can find it.

To connect with Dr. Benjamin Long, MD, please check out: 

Instagram – thewholeheartedmd 

TikTok – thewholeheartedmd

LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/benjamin-long-md-6384b8257/

thewholeheartedmd.com  

https://www.SleepHabitsJournal.com/

Transcript

Welcome & Show Mission

Ashley Love 0:00

Hello and welcome to Shadow Me Next, a podcast where I take you into and behind the scenes of the medical world to provide you with a deeper understanding of the human side of medicine. I'm Ashley, a physician assistant, medical editor, clinical preceptor, and the creator of Shadow Me Next. It is my pleasure to introduce you to incredible members of the healthcare field and uncover their unique stories, the joys and challenges they face, and what drives them in their careers. It's access you want and stories you need. Whether you're a pre-health student or simply curious about the healthcare field, I invite you to join me as we take a conversational and personal look into the lives and minds of leaders in medicine. I don't want you to miss a single one of these conversations. So make sure that you subscribe to this podcast, which will automatically notify you when new episodes are dropped. And follow us on Instagram and Facebook at Shadow Me Next, where we will review highlights from this conversation and where I'll give you sneak previews of our upcoming guests. Some careers in medicine are about speed, some are about precision, and some are about sitting with people in the quiet, hardest moments of their lives. Today's guest knew he wanted to be a pediatrician at 12 years old. But it was a single rotation in sleep medicine that altered his course. What followed was a career shaped by listening, theology, emotional intelligence, and an understanding that healing is not always technical. Sometimes it's deeply human. Dr. Benjamin Long is a dual board certified sleep medicine physician and pediatrician, a military physician, and the author of a sleep habits journal. In this conversation, we talk about burnout, insomnia, faith, overthinking, and what it really means to accompany someone through suffering. Please keep in mind that the content of this podcast is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only and should not be considered as professional medical advice. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the host and guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any other agency, organization, employer, or company. This is Shadow Me Next with Dr. Benjamin Long. Thank you so much for joining me on Shadow Me Next today. I've already told you how convicting for me this conversation is going to be, how much we are going to learn about something that um everybody always complains about and almost wears as a badge of honor, but yet is not interested in really working to fix it. And we're going to highlight why they need to be interested in that today. So thanks for being here.

What Dual Board Certification Means

Dr. Benjamin Long 2:44

I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for having me on.

Ashley Love 2:46

So let's talk a little bit about your background. You are a dual board certified sleep medicine physician and pediatrician. For those listening, tell us what this means. What does it mean to be dual board certified?

Dr. Benjamin Long 3:02

Yeah, it when you think about um specializing in medicine, most of the time it's pretty straightforward with like, I'm uh, you know, did a pediatrics residency and then I go and jump in to do pediatric gastroenterology. Um, but the reason I use the language dual board certified is because even though my niche is pediatric sleep, I'm board certified through partnership between the American Board of Pediatrics and the American Board of Internal Medicine to see all ages of sleep. So it's this really interesting thing. Um, the most prominent you can get it in sleep medicine, and allergy is another similar place where you can come from a different residency core specialty to be able to really, in a way, practice a totally different field of medicine. Um, and it and instead of like, in my view, where so many specialties kind of narrow down to your not just kids, but kids who have stomach or heart problems. It's like I was able to kind of go through a door and almost enter a totally new world where I could see all ages uh for sleep medicine.

Ashley Love 4:09

Thank you so much for describing that. So it's so interesting because I think this is one of those questions that pre-health students have a lot, right? Is Ashley, I'm really worried that if I go to medical school and I become a doctor, I'm going to be pigeonholed into one specialty for the rest of my life. And I am, I'm 21 years old and I can't plan the rest of my life right now. I don't know what I am gonna have for dinner, let alone what I want to practice for the next four decades. Um, but what you've described really is is some flexibility there, which is actually really nice. And the question I have for you is um almost a chicken or the egg question, which came first. Did you know you wanted to when you first started thinking about medicine, did you know you wanted to become a pediatrician and then found an interest in sleep medicine? Or was it the other way around?

Choosing Pediatrics Then Finding Sleep

Medicine’s Changing Culture And Calling

Military Medicine And Community Care

Dr. Benjamin Long 4:53

Definitely the first. Um, my my grandfather was a pediatrician in Columbus, Georgia for um, you know, very long time. I I even have memories of going up to the hospital with him as like a kid and like sitting at the nurses station and like kind of doing rounds. I guess this was like pre-HIPA kind of thing. So um, so that was really formative for me. Um, and you know, anytime I would go anywhere with my grandfather, it was like Dr. Sizemore. We would always run into someone, kids are like running up to him and stuff like that. So that was like this big thing in my mind. Um, and so I made a decision to be a pediatrician like when I was 12. You know, I feel like a lot of pre-med students, and then once we got into medical school, it was like people like me who were like, I knew from a very young age I wanted to do this, and then I would meet these people who were like, I just decided, yeah, I'll give medicine a try. And I'm like, what? What are you talking about? Like, you mean this hasn't been like your goal for the past like 10 years or half your life kind of a thing? Um and and so I, you know, continued on that trajectory and really I got towards the end of my pediatrics residency, and I kind of, you know, I was like head down, work, work, work, work, work, work, work. And like looked up and I was like, oh, I don't know if this is what I want to do because I almost had a little bit of the rose-colored glasses on because I was like, the the kind of stories and the what I witness with my grandfather and how he practiced that exists, but it's more rare these days. Um, and so so some of it definitely was self-preservation, I think. Um, but also I just happened to rotate on sleep. And you know, we often talk about click moments in medicine where you have the undecided student who, like, I don't know, and then you you rotate on something and it just clicks. That was exactly it for me in sleep. I my first patient was uh the pediatric sleep clinic. And um, it was a kid who had kind of like a complex medical history that I was familiar with as a you know pediatrics resident. So the staff sent me in there, and it was just this really different flow of the conversation. And um the the cool thing about sleep is that it's like whenever you can fix someone's sleep, they're so happy. You know, like like so, and it it's so some of it is a little bit of like uh immediate like feedback too, like by the you know, second or third follow-up, usually people are like, Oh yeah, I'm doing so much better, or no, it's you know, still not helping. And then I kind of have to continue down that road. Um, so so yeah, I, you know, to the point that when I was an intern, I was in like an orientation breakout group that was led by a sleep medicine fellow that year. And I was like, sleep medicine, who wants to do that? And it turned out it was me. So you that was you. Oh, that is such a cool thing. And and you know, that's kind of what I expected was that um you enter medicine, and like you said, from 12 years old. So you knew this is what you wanted to do. And I I do want to talk about your grandfather here in just a minute. You enter medicine, you fall in love with medicine, you all of a sudden see behind the curtain of medicine, and then something catches your eye, you know, is really kind of the visual that I'm hearing now. And and I think sometimes it does take a bit of bravery to follow that. Like you said, you know, who wants to do sleep medicine? Oh, wait a second. Perhaps that is me. Um, thank you for describing that. It's a really cool journey. Let's go back and talk about your grandfather for just a second. Um, because you mentioned something that I think will be really, really helpful to our pre-health students. And that is um really the magic of medicine, is what you got to see when you were 12 years old, right? And the nurses and the banter with the nurses and and the respect that your grandfather really had earned um with his families and their and the kiddos. What and you mentioned what you saw with him does still exist, but it's also changed, right? Let's give let's give our pre-health students a peek behind the curtain. What are you what are you talking about when you say those things? Yeah. I think one thing is that there definitely are still opportunities where you can especially go into like a primary care field and go to a small town and you are integrated into the fabric of that community in a in a very real way. There are voices online right now, and there's a little bit of a conversation around should I consider medicine as a calling, or is this just like a job like any other job? Um the the funny part about medicine is there's a lot of a um whether you want to call it a philosophy worldview, um, I would argue even a theology of how I um go into that, that we're not trained to understand or talk about really, but that undergirds so much of how we go about doing our job as practitioners. And um, and so for there is I've seen this trend online of more people like this is just just like a job, nine to five, like any other thing. And in certain systems where um you don't necessarily have that control over your schedule um or um the autonomy as much to make some of those decisions, then that is a little bit of a self-preservation. And it's kind of like, okay, I'm gonna clock in, clock out, because that's what this system demands of me if I'm going to survive here. But there are other opportunities where you can, you know, control your own schedule, you can um be integrated into a community and you know find connections and fulfillment in a way that is that kind of like older medicine. Um I do have a story. Uh so for a long period, I have actually been in the military as a uh military practitioner. Um and so the real beautiful thing is we when we lived up in Alaska, we lived on base. And so really every single child who was on my street was a part of my clinic.

Ashley Love 11:25

Wow.

Dr. Benjamin Long 11:26

And so I had moms with newborn babies come knock in the middle of the night and they're like, oh my gosh, can you just like you know check on my baby? And I that's very rare. I would offer to all of my neighbors, hey, call like if I can be your kind of checkpoint so that way you're not spending the next four hours in your ER, then like, yes, please utilize me in that capacity. Um, and people actually didn't take me up on that offer as much as I thought they would, because most people wouldn't be like, oh, I don't want to be a bother, kind of a thing. Yes. And so, and so I had newborn babies on my dining room table, you know, I had um, you know, went over to a neighbor's house and like diagnosed a pneumonia and stuff like that. And I was, it was so fulfilling because it was like, these are people I know that I love and they're so appreciative. And so it just hits way differently. And I was like, this must have been what medicine used to be like. Um, and and I know that is still possible and still exists. It's just you have to find it.

What A Sleep Clinic Day Looks Like

Ashley Love 12:26

You do, and you have to fight for it too, I think sometimes. Um, oh, I've I kind of have goosebumps thinking about that. You know, it's really, it's what I think we all really, really desire just from for general care. You know, when we are in emergent situations or when we're in really significant diagnostic, um, you know, the throes of a bad diagnosis, yeah, those things become a little bit less important, right? We just need somebody to help us to fix us to make us better. When it comes to our our care as humans, and you mentioned theology, and I am very excited to dive into that because it is a it plays a big part in who you are and how you practice. But you know, whole person care, it does require relationships. In my opinion, it really does. I think um it makes patients feel more heard, and I think the visits become more cooperative and ultimately they end up with a better lifestyle because of their relationship with the person who's helping them with their health. Um, you you mentioned how people don't take advantage often when you really open yourself up as a clinician and a person. And I would absolutely agree with that. Um, especially recently, the number of times I've given my cell phone to patients um with the exact same instructions. Please call me if you have any questions about anything. You know, it's not so much a workaround, it's just I want you to feel like you have access and it and that people are available to you. Yeah, they rarely call ever, hardly ever. If anything, I get a Merry Christmas text as opposed to a phone call about a health issue, you know. So it's um it is really lovely. And I thank you for describing all of that. I think it's important that students realize that it's not always rainbows and butterflies, but there is still a lot of goodness here in medicine and and you do sometimes have to seek it out, but it's there. Let's pivot just a bit um because I would really love to hear a little bit about sleep medicine and what that practice looks like for you. So describe a day to us where um where you're focused on taking care of people with disordered, disordered sleeping.

Behavioral Sleep Issues In Kids

Dr. Benjamin Long 14:29

Yeah. Um, I've been in a really unique situation for a lot of my military career and that actually I split my time between my sleep practice and my general pediatrics practice. So I really have done both um for my attending career to this point. Um, a typical day in uh the sleep medicine clinic is you know, going in. Most people will kind of have half days of um or some time kind of in between to actually read sleep studies versus seeing patients in clinic. So those are kind of the two um points there. Um you've got several different kinds of sleep studies. You have the ones a lot that you see that you can just do at home um versus the full get up where you get have, you know, leads on your head for the EEG, on your eyes, the nasal cannula, chest bands, stuff on your finger, and all this stuff. And then we're like, oh, also by the way, there's a camera over there watching you go to sleep. So super comfortable. And um, and so then we read all of that data for a night and kind of create a report based on that. So uh that's kind of one side of sleep medicine. Uh, I think a lot of practitioners really enjoy that part because there's a little bit more flexibility in that um compared to having the demands of uh appointments back to back. And then um for me, a typical day as uh my niche is pediatric sleep is doing a pediatric sleep clinic. And so that's where I'm having patients that sometimes it might be a classic um seven-year-old child with you know huge tonsils, and mom shows me a video, and the kid's like, I'm like, yeah, you need to get a sleep study, you know, kind of a thing. Um, that that kind of goes down that direction. A lot of times for pediatrics behavioral. And so I made it a priority in my fellowship and my training to really make sure that I was comfortable with the behavioral sleep problems that occur in pediatrics. And so that's everything from that we think of like babies who are having difficulty around sleep training. We could have a very long conversation on that because there's so much misinformation out on the internet with that right now. And um, I can tell you the number of times I'm not exaggerating, mothers sitting in front of me crying because they're so afraid to do anything and they don't know who to believe, and they don't know what to do. And really, it's just a matter of I'm present, you know. Um, a slight tangent, you know, we're there's so many conversations around AI and concerns about it overtaking our jobs. But in that moment, that's something that AI is not going to be able to do. Is there is something to the human component of accompanying people in their illness experience that I great. If AI can diagnose better than me, yes, like we we want that. That is a good thing. Um, but we'll always need people who are going to be able to bear witness to suffering and accompany people through that as well. Um, and so, and that's how I view my time in the clinic with my families is I'm they are on a journey through the sleepless night, and I am accompanying them through that.

Quality Question

Presence, AI, And Bearing Suffering

Ashley Love 17:38

Here on Shadow Me Next, we include what we call quality questions in every episode because medicine is not just about what you know, it's about who you are when things are hard. This is the kind of question you may hear in an interview. It's also the kind of question you will have to answer in real life, whether you are ready to or not. So, today's quality question is this Tell me about a time you witnessed suffering. How did it affect you? This is not about having the perfect story. It's about awareness. It's about whether you notice what is happening around you and if you are willing to sit with it. If you're preparing for healthcare, I want you to think about this one. Let it challenge you a little, because medicine certainly will. Keep in mind that there's more interview prep, such as mock interviews and personal statement review, over on ShadowmeNext.com. There you'll find amazing resources to help you as you prepare to answer your own quality questions.

Quality Question: Witnessing Suffering

Dr. Benjamin Long 18:37

And it's just a matter of tell me your story, what um tools do I have that can help you along your journey? And let's continue to see where that leads. And um, and yeah, that's that's a typical day in the sleep clinic for me.

Ashley Love 18:52

I love that. I can only imagine the frustration that a lot of your patients feel. And I do want to, I do want to ask um in a second, uh, sometimes how that frustration might manifest in clinic as well. But before we get that, we before we get there, um, there is a question that I'm very interested in. And that is it kind of it ties back to what you mentioned with theology. And um you've you've used phrases like bearing witness to suffering and things like that that are very difficult things to walk through as a as a physician, as a clinician, right? However, um, you have a really good support system. But many people they'll lie awake at night because of uh, you know, a million things. Maybe not caffeine in kids, but caffeine in adults or screen time. Um but from your perspective, how often is insomnia, and you mentioned this a little bit with behavioral, how often is insomnia an emotional or a spiritual signal rather than an actual sleep disorder?

Insomnia, Emotion, And Spiritual Signals

Taking A Spiritual History In Clinic

Dr. Benjamin Long 19:49

The more I've gone on a journey of you know, thinking how can I integrate theology and medicine and how I practice and how I care for my patients, um, I really do see. Those things as um aspects of the same thing. When we're talking about mind, psyche, emotions, spirit, in a way we're really describing all the same thing. Um, not to get too philosophical too quickly, but you know, too often we talk about the um neuroanatomy correlates of behaviors and emotions and things like that. And that is very important. You know, if someone has an overactive amygdala, then obviously that is going to play out in a very different way from someone who doesn't have those things. But you can lead yourself into what's called the fallacy of misplaced concreteness, which is where you assume that the brain scan, the brain, that physical thing is the same thing as that emotional experience. And those aren't the two set same things because if you think about it in some way, we still don't even have like a physical explanation for consciousness or a physical explanation for dreams and memories. You know, yes, we can a neurosurgeon could probe your brain to, you know, spark some memory, but they're never going to be able to spark the exact same memory and duplicate that amongst people. That's crazy. That's crazy, you know? So that's why there are these mysteries still within medicine that, yes, we have amazing powerful tools to be able to help us to treat and accompany our patients. Um, but as I progress through my medical education, I've realized there's something else that was um missing. And like I said, all of us are operating out of some kind of worldview. And whether you like it or not, you are operating out of out of some kind of theology. For people who aren't familiar, theology is just the study of God and God's relationship to creation. And so if I believe that there is no God, I am operating out of a theology that there is no God. And that's going to extend to my patients as well. And so back to your question on insomnia and kind of those barriers, I would say it's that is very common. The reason why the first line treatment for insomnia, the one that we come back to that we know has the best evidence behind it, is cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia, it's down to your thoughts and your behaviors and how those become barriers to good sleep. And so that's why in my practice, not only do I get a social history for people, but I also do a spiritual history, which is very simple. I just ask, is spirituality or religion an important part of your daily life? If my patient says no, nope, and then we continue and we have the same kind of conversation that we would normally have. But if you would ask me what is the one question that changes the whole conversation, I would say it's that one because sometimes people say yes and we go in a totally different direction. And it always influences the conversation because in one way I feel like I do have a fuller vision of my patient and understanding who they are, but in another way, sometimes it really is the thing that is interrupting their sleep. You know, some people can't help it when they're having a faith existential crisis, or um, unfortunately, when they have uh experienced real religious hurt or church hurt, or to the extent of religious trauma of those things. Um, and the being in a medical space, it's not always um, I think patients often feel like this isn't the place to necessarily talk about that per se. Um, and so by me asking that question, I open that door and they know that they are safe to present that side of themselves. Um, in the same way, it's funny because as your pre-med students get into medical school, we will ask a full sexual history. We will ask how you do it, where do things go, how often, and you know, like go down that list and not blush. But then it's so funny when I talk to colleagues and sometimes and I talk about a spiritual history, and then all of a sudden they're like, Oh, uh, that might make people uncomfortable. And I'm like, really? Like, you know, like oh, okay. So, so it it is this um really odd, interesting thing. Um, but it it definitely can um when it does inform the situation and the sleep problem, then it kind of gives you the keys to have that conversation. Versus if you're not even asking the question, then you might be shooting yourself in the foot a little bit.

Ashley Love 24:36

It's such an interesting take. And one, I mean, I've God worked in medicine for how long, never considered. All of it is extremely private, and every conversation could be viewed as being highly uncomfortable, right? So to think of one as being extremely normal and the other one as being totally off limits is just, oh my gosh, it's just so interesting. Um, okay, talking about disordered sleep. Um, obviously, you, you know, there's a million different definitions of disordered sleep, right? Difficulty falling asleep, difficulty staying asleep, difficulty waking up, um, things like that. But let's talk a little bit about the emotions of that. Um, you know, you mentioned mothers sitting there sobbing, crying just because they don't know what to do. There's a lot of emotion when it comes to sleep. What describe for us some of the emotions that play into these sleep disorders that you're dealing with on a daily basis, some that that maybe cause the disordered sleep or perhaps might stem from disordered sleep.

Overthinking As An Insomnia Driver

Dr. Benjamin Long 25:30

Yeah. I'd say a real common archetype or profile to an insomnia that I see is the overthinker, is what I call it, where that worry and anxiety um can create a huge barrier to sleep. Um so especially, you know, I'm sure you have a lot of listeners who they're worrying about their finals, they're worrying about their applications, they're worrying about their job shadowing, they're worrying about all these kinds of things. And that is what's kind of like playing in the night. So, as far as just um common, that would definitely uh be a big one. And um, you know, sleep is this unfortunate um vicious cycle in a way, where when you have sleep deprivation, you know, going back to those brain imaging studies, your your prefrontal cortex that is having like less functioning. Um, and so that's your you know ability to plan, your attention, um, all of those kind of things from the top side. And then your um basal ganglia, so then parts of the brain that are more of the emotions, like the amygdala and stuff of that nature, those are going higher. And so it's kind of like what we are the part of our brain that is supposed to kind of help us get through to our normal daily lives, a lot of our cognitive functions, that's going down, our emotions are going up. And so then that's why you get more of the I'm, you know, I just feel like I'm all over the place, I'm moody, I'm impulsive, or things of that nature when you're getting poor sleep. Um, and so, so so often when you're experiencing that, then you're worrying more, and that can kind of get you into this vicious cycle that can be hard to break.

Book Recommendation: Sleep Habits Journal

Ashley Love 27:11

And if you're listening and you're thinking, oh my goodness, this is me. I need help here. I would highly recommend you check out Dr. Long's book. It's called Sleep Habits Journal Practices, Prayers, and Devotions to Ease Your Sleepless Nights. This book is incredible. It blends biblical reflections, which I would imagine is great even for people who would not call themselves Christian, right? Or or followers of the Bible. Guided prayers, journaling prompts with tools that are proven from sleep medicine to help you calm your anxious heart and invite the Lord's presence into restless nights will it will, it just sounds incredible. I am furthermore, the cover of this book is gorgeous. You guys, please, please check it out. Before we wrap up, Dr. Long, I do want to ask what is one simple practical thing that our listener can begin to do right now to help experience better rest, aside from buying your book.

Practical Tool: Schedule Worry Time

Closing Thanks And Where To Find Dr. Long

Dr. Benjamin Long 28:06

Yeah, yeah, of course. Um, I would say for that um, you know, kind of overactive mind, overthinker, one thing that it doesn't sound like it should work is actually scheduling worry time, which that sounds totally counterintuitive. You're like, why you want me to worry on purpose? And it's like, what I'm trying to get you to do is to form yourself into a person that you are limiting the time that you are allowing yourself to worry. So it's not magic. Everyone always wants immediate magic results. Any behavioral intervention that I give to someone, I say, give this a full try for at least four to six weeks. We're actually practicing it every day. If you come back and you say life got in the way and um you weren't able to practice this consistently, that's fine. But we can't say that this behavioral intervention doesn't work until we've actually given it a good try. And so if scheduling worry time is exactly what it sounds like, I'm gonna have a time outside of my bedroom. So I'm not in my bedroom. I'm not associating that as a place where I'm going to worry. I'm gonna do it before bedtime. And I literally sit down and I just write out all of my worries. You're gonna notice a little bit of a, you know, kind of bell curve there. And so a lot of patients come back on the second or third interview and they're like, Dr. Long, I am worrying more. So that's part of my advice first is okay, you will notice an uptick because now you're actually giving your time space to worry. So your mind is gonna give you all of those things to worry about. And if you continue to practice it, eventually you will find out you are going to um reach the limit of the things that you've worried about. And that's why I tell people to write it down because then you can go back to, oh yeah, this is, you know, that I'm thinking about this, but that actually is connected to this thing up here too. And so, and then where this actually really helps for bedtime is then if I'm outside of my worry time, I'm going to tell myself, I don't have to think about this now. I'll think about it at worry time. I love it. And that does two things is one, it's you know, limiting yourself to have just that one point in the day so that the rest of the day you don't have to worry about that. Um, but then two, I tell my patients, if it is really that important, you will remember it at worry time. Because you can you can get into a worry where you're like, well, I'm worried, I'm gonna forget what I was worrying about. And that's like, no, that's that that we gotta stop that. And so that's why I tell people if um you know, if it really is important, it will show back up at your worry time. And then you can allow that worry to just go away if it you can't remember it later. That's fine. It's not gonna blow up and be the end of the world kind of a thing. Um, and so yes, one or two days, you're still gonna worry. Your sleep is not gonna be that much different. But if you start today and you do that for like a full month, then when you come back, you can be like, wow, I not only have I like put all my worries down, now I can kind of um use my worry time to start addressing some of those worries too. And I can start, you know, maybe challenging some of them or making some plans and how I can kind of mitigate some of those things. And so it just really turns it on its head.

Ashley Love 31:22

It's incredible advice, Dr. Long. Thank you so much, guys. Definitely check out Dr. Long on Instagram and TikTok, The Wholehearted MD, and find him online at the wholeheartedmd.com as well as his book, sleephabitsjournal.com. Dr. Long, it has been an incredible conversation. Thank you so much for joining us.

Dr. Benjamin Long 31:43

Yeah, of course. Thank you for having me on.

Ashley Love 31:45

Thank you so very much for listening to this episode of Shadow Me Next. If you liked this episode or if you think it could be useful for a friend, please subscribe and invite them to join us next Monday. As always, if you have any questions, let me know on Facebook or Instagram. Access you want, stories you need, you're always invited to Shadow Me Next.